Okay, okay, hear me out first. I want to start out this Liberty HealthShare review and state that this is not a political post, at all. Seriously. This also isn't a sponsored post or anything like that. This is my Liberty HealthShare review and my research on a health care sharing ministry, as I want to help others find alternative forms of health insurance in case they need it. I did. If you are looking for Liberty Healthshare reviews, then here is my opinion.
I first heard about health sharing ministries about a year ago. I had no idea that they existed, but I thought it was an interesting concept. I didn't look into it any further because I already had health insurance.
Then, in late 2015, I found out that I had no realistic health insurance options. I didn't want to pay the penalty for not having health insurance, and I also didn't want to go uninsured.
See, for full-time RVers, health insurance companies are fairly strict.
Some health insurance companies won't cover you once you travel away from your state. If they do cover you when out-of-state, they usually require that you at least live full-time in your home state. As RVers, while we do have an address, it is technically not where we live full-time, so we did not want to have to deal with a health insurance company possibly voiding a medical expense if they found out that we were trying to get around this loophole.
Plus, the only policy that we qualified for (in our state) had an astonishing deductible of $39,000 for an out-of-state medical expense. And, as full-time RVers, we are excluded from the majority of policies anyways due to the loophole as described above, so that just didn't work for us.
Paying a high monthly health insurance premium that comes with a $39,000 annual deductible, and the fact that any of our claims would probably be voided because we are full-time travelers, made this decision a no-brainer.
We obviously had to find something else.
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So, in January of 2016, we started a membership with Liberty HealthShare. We filled out an application, they approved us, and we even had a medical expense in January that they covered. We NEVER have medical expenses, so it was just a coincidence that we had a claim only six days after we were approved.
And, they covered that claim.
My Liberty Healthshare review:
So, what is a health care sharing ministry?
According to Healthcaresharing.org, “a health care sharing ministry provides a health care cost sharing arrangement among persons of similar and sincerely held beliefs. HCSMs are operated by not-for-profit religious organizations acting as a clearinghouse for those who have medical expenses and those who desire to share the burden of those medical expenses.”
Members of a health sharing ministry pay a monthly share with an agreement to help one another in the risk-pool by covering medical expenses.
The positives of a health care sharing ministry.
The positives of health sharing ministries include:
- Monthly costs that can be much less expensive than traditional health insurance.
- Lower annual deductibles.
- No in-network requirements, so you can go to any doctor, hospital, etc., that you wish.
Also, being a member of Liberty HealthShare exempts you from paying the penalty for not having health insurance.
How much is Liberty HealthShare?
For the both of us, we pay just $249 each month. Yes, altogether! You can see their pricing below:
With this monthly fee, 100% of our eligible medical bills- up to $1,000,000 per incident, are covered, after the $1,000 per couple annual unshared amount (think of this as your annual deductible).
They even have plans for as low as $107 per month.
You can find all of Liberty HealthShare's options here.
The downsides of a health care sharing ministry.
Now, health sharing ministries are definitely not perfect. As with most things, something this good must have negatives.
Liberty HealthShare is not traditional health insurance, which means:
- They are under no requirement to cover your medical expenses.
- You cannot deduct Liberty's monthly costs from your business taxes.
- You cannot contribute to a Health Savings Account.
- Pre-existing medical conditions are not covered until years later.
Health care sharing ministries all have some sort of ethical rules that you must abide by such as no smoking, no drinking, and so on. If you incur a medical expense due to something that is against their policies, there is a chance that they will not cover it.
Lastly, I want to repeat this again, the biggest caveat is that there is no guarantee that a health sharing ministry will pay a medical expense. This is because they are not governed under the same laws as health insurance companies due to the fact that they are not considered health insurance.
Liberty HealthShare review
First of all, leaving traditional health insurance and joining a health sharing ministry was a difficult decision for us. We've always had “normal” health insurance, and we don't know many people who use Liberty.
However, we didn't really have a choice.
We even used an RV health insurance broker to see if they could find us anything, which they couldn't. It was either be completely uninsured or go the health care sharing ministry route.
I will say that I haven't regretted this decision one bit. So far, I have had no problems with Liberty HealthShare. They have covered one wellness visit as well as an ER visit. It was pretty easy in both cases- they just took my Liberty HealthShare card and didn't have any questions. Liberty HealthShare didn't have any questions either.
Liberty HealthShare does have a set of guidelines (which you can find here) that they ask that you follow. But, they accept customers of all faiths, lifestyles, backgrounds, and sexual orientations.
I will make sure to keep this Liberty HealthShare review updated in case anything happens, especially if my opinion were to change in the future.
How did I hear about this health care sharing ministry?
There were two main people who influenced my decision to join Liberty HealthShare. This includes Holly and Choncé. Both of them are Liberty HealthShare members, and here is what they have to say about the company:
We joined Liberty HealthShare in 2014 after seeing our premiums double due to the Affordable Care Act. So far, we have seen tremendous value with our plan, and all for a price that is half of what we would need to pay for health insurance. And, instead of having a $12,000 or $13,000 deductible with Obamacare, we have a $1,500 annual out-of-pocket max. – Holly Johnson at Club Thrifty, Why We’re Joining a Healthcare Sharing Ministry
I've been using Liberty HealthShare for about a year and a half now. At first, I was hesitant to try it, but health insurance premium quotes were very high for me so I knew I didn't have much to lose. Now, I am so happy I gave it a try because I like how I can visit any doctor I want and Liberty has really stepped up to share my medical expenses so I don't have to cover them out of pocket. Last year, I had to have a surgery done which totaled around $13,600. Liberty HealthShare repriced my medical bills to about $3,500 and shared the entire expense. Having surgery is scary enough on its own, but I felt peace-of-mind knowing I wasn't going to be bombarded with tons of unnecessary medical expenses afterward. Liberty HealthShare is still growing and the team is always open to hearing suggestions and trying to improve each member's experience. I like how one team member offered to call a doctor I was interested in seeing to explain to them what a health sharing ministry is and ask if they would accept me as a patient. – Choncé at My Debt Epiphany, Putting My Health First: A Review of Liberty HealthShare
Choncé was also kind enough to share a screenshot of how Liberty HealthShare paid the entire expense of a surgery she had last year.
If you're interested in Liberty HealthShare after reading my Liberty HealthShare review, please send me an email at michelle@makingsenseofcents.com, and I can put you in touch with someone at the company. They will explain it further and answer any questions you have. This is not a sponsored post or anything. I just want to help others find other options, when there are no others that make sense.
How much do you pay monthly for health insurance or an alternative? What do you think of health care sharing ministries?
Disclaimer with this Liberty HealthShare review: You should always do your own research when it comes to a big topic such as choosing health care, a health care sharing ministry, and health insurance. This is just my opinion and review of Liberty HealthShare, but you should remember that I am not a health care professional or expert.
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Thanks so much for posting this, Michelle! I was laid off from my full-time job last week and health insurance has been one of my biggest concerns. I’ve browsed healthcare.gov for Tennessee, but I’m not pleased with the rates I’m seeing. It’s great to know about another reputable option.
I’m so sorry that you were laid off Kate. I had no idea!
Yes I too am looking into Liberty share because I have just recently been informed that the government assistance that I received on Oboma care is taxable income. Was not made aware of it up front or perhaps I missed it. I was dropped by United health care after less than one year because the pulled out of the program. Liberty is looking better by the minute as I am self employed.
Interesting concept and interesting write up about your experience. I also find it very interesting that finding insurance can be difficult being a RVer. It totally makes sense, but is also not something one would instantly think of when deciding to live in a mobile unit.
Yeah, I had no idea. I had heard it was difficult, but it’s definitely more difficult than I originally thought, haha!
I had never heard of this concept before- so interesting! Is Liberty Healthshare one of the bigger providers out there? Since these ministries are under no obligation to actually pay out, it sounds like you’d definitely want to pick one with a lot of paying members.
I learn something new every day on here; great article!
I believe there’s only 3 main ones, so yes.
Very interesting; I’ve always been curious about these healthcare sharing ministries. It sounds like a great option for you & I appreciate the information and your experience. Never thought about the difficulty of coverage for full-time RVers. Do you think the right to reject coverage is in part their way of guarding against people over-using the sharing system?
No, I think it has a lot to do with their values. They don’t want to cover people who get into a drunk driving accident, those who are risky, etc.
My husband works for the state, so our health insurance is much more affordable, though the premiums have been increasing quite significantly in the last year. We pay about $188/month to cover our family of 6 for a high-deductible health plan (the year before we just paid $67/month!), and contribute an additional $150 monthly to our HSA. On top of that, the state contributes $2250 a year into our HSA. Our deductibles are a little high, $2750/individual and $5500 for family, but that’s OOP max. All of this will probably change, though, in the next year as the state looks at more premium increases and decreases in contributions to employee’s accounts.
I have looked at healthcare sharing ministries before and I think that they are a good option for people who don’t have access to a good plan. But one that I looked at (Samaritan) seemed to have a cap on the total amount it would assist with. I think it was $250,000, which may seem like a lot, but if you were in ICU for a year or got cancer, that would be gone very quickly. I also don’t like the litigative side of it in that they aren’t liable to pay for any of your expenses. You would think that if you are paying a certain amount, they should be liable for something.
I know many people use these ministries and are happy with them. With premiums rising and more people considering going to them, it will be interesting to see if the restrictions on them change in the years to come. Obamacare is dependent on participation on the health insurance markets – if people choose other options, it would reduce that participation.
Yes, the fact that they can decide what they will cover somewhat scares me. I have no other choice since no one else will cover us, though, so this is better than not being covered.
For anyone interested, Samaritan Ministries offers unlimited need sharing (no cap) if you join Save to Share, which is their very low cost add-on to their base plan and designed specifically for those expensive cancers, heart issues, etc. Anyone wanting full “Coverage” for anything that could go above the $250,000 base amount would want to be part of that (and I would highly recommend it, it’s very low cost for tremendous peace of mind). We have been Samaritan members for several years and are very happy with it. 🙂 It’s true there is no contract, but they also operate with the singular purpose of helping members instead of trying to get profit from them. After 20 years of successfully having 100% of qualifying medical bills met we felt they have proved their viability and the contract issue became moot. On the other hand, if we had insurance we could pay more than $30,000 next year (premiums and huge deductible) before insurance would pay a dime beyond our “free” physicals. I am so thankful that healthcare sharing ministries exist and that most are ACA exempt (that would include Samaritan and Liberty).
I recently joined Samaritan and have been excited about the cost and the entire Sharing concept, Christians helping each other with med expenses. I also liked the fact that each members share goes directly to the person with a need. However I just heard about Liberty tonight and I like the fact that those share amounts get paid to the provider vs. the member who has a claim. I guess there is some risk that a member with Samaritan could receive payments and not pay the provider which could hurt Samaritan. Of course with this being a Christian share program, we would hope a member would not do this.
The one thing I have been concerned about with Samaritan is regarding pre-existing conditions. I have high cholesterol and high blood pressure. I have not been able to get Samaritan to tell me if these conditions are considered pre-existing if I were to have a heart attack or stent required. On the other hand, Liberty has a program for people like myself in which a coach is assigned in order to improve your health for a year. You are required to stay in touch with the coach at least once a month to improve your lifestyle and your health situation. Then you graduate after you have improved by the end of the year. So with liberty a person like myself knows where you stand and have the opportunity to improve yourself while participating fully in the share program. While the out-of-pocket for my wife and I would be $600 with Samaritan and $1000 with liberty I’m thinking Liberty might be the better choice for us. Just my thoughts. I think any of the 4 major Share programs are much better than the Obamacare option. Thanks for your post and opening up this discussion.
I am so glad that you posted this! I left my full time teaching job in May and I was the insurance provider. Before making the decision for me to quit my job, we researched these options. I think we have settled on another healthcare sharing plan but I will certainly compare it to this one. I will be honest. It is a little scary to me. I think because it is just not the “norm.” I appreciate your honest review.
Yes, I agree, it can definitely be scary! We have been happy so far – it’s a hard decision.
Thanks for sharing the details of your experience, Michelle! We are thinking ahead to retirement – health insurance premiums could be a killer in early retirement. This may be a viable option for us too. I appreciate the information!
Welcome!
I’m intrigued by this concept-I’ve heard of health car sharing ministries but never known any details about how they work. Since this isn’t technically health insurance does it still count in waiving the penalty for Obamacare health insurance requirements?
There is no penalty if you are a member of one of the grandfathered ministries. Liberty is one of them, so I do not have to pay the penalty.
We joined Christian Healthcare Ministries in January as our premiums would have been at least $550 for basic bronze coverage. We haven’t had to use it (thankfully) but are paying a lot less each month.
Awesome!
That’s awesome! I’m glad you got a good deal. My Mom uses another HealthShare type insurance provider. It makes a lot of sense if you are self employed and can’t afford Obamacare!
Thanks! This choice didn’t have to do with money, though. As full-time travelers, we didn’t qualify for anything else.
You say that you have no other options because you are full-time travellers. However, I’m aware of a frw providera that cover digital nomad types, like World Travellers. I know they’re premiums go up if you include US coverage, but did you look into insurance plans designed for travellers?
I was referring to traditional health insurance when I said that there were no other options 🙂
Yes, I did look into plans that were designed for travelers, but almost all of them meant that you had to pay the health insurance penalty.
Ah, I forgot they don’t cover the penalty! My apologies. Also, I hadn’t heard of these health shares before this, so thanks for spreading the word!
Yeah, it stinks that they don’t cover the penalties. We are happy with Liberty, though! 🙂
are you still happy w liberty health share? have you needed to use it for a big expense? Debating if i should do Liberty or CHM for my family.
I am still happy with Liberty. We’ve used it for a few expenses, but nothing over $2,000.
My understanding is that with Samaritan and Christian Healthcare, you have to pay the first $300 and $500 of a bill respectively. Versus with Liberty, you pay a $1500 “deductible” then 100% is paid. If we only end up having small sick visits and wellness visits, then with Samaritan and CHS none of our bills will actually be shared/paid because they’ll be under $300/$500.
Emilee, you are almost right. With Liberty the “deductible” (annual unshared amount) is $500 for singles, $1000 for couples, and $1500 for families.
I have never heard of a healthshare before. This is great information! When we inevitably start traveling this will be something I will look into for sure!
Welcome!
I’ve noticed two things the past three years: almost everyone I talk to who has to shop in the exchanges has found them unaffordable, and insurers are losing hundreds of millions of dollars on these already unaffordable plans. My company recently left most of the exchanges after losing half a billion dollars (with a B!) on our plans.
Naturally people are moving to health sharing ministries and it really has found the ultimate loophole: no one takes risk. Or collective risk, I should say. I’m just surprised the government hasn’t intervened yet. The fact that people who previously had cancer or other conditions is what keeps the costs down. It’s a good setup for people who are forced to shop in the exchanges, so I’m glad you are taking advantage of it.
Mandatory disclaimer that I speak for myself and not my employer…
I was hoping that you would comment DC! That’s crazy that half a billion dollars was lost by your company!
Being with a health care sharing ministry does somewhat scare me at times because of the unknown. However, like I said in the post, I don’t have a choice because no health insurance company will cover us as full-time travelers. I do wonder if health insurers will ever change that in the future.
It seems like another advantage is that the unknown might drive you further to an even healthier lifestyle. When all these changes in health care started happening, my husband and I resolved to not need it. I know it’s a lofty goal but our personal health did a 180. DH lost 50 pounds, we got more active and we stopped eating crap. We never get sick now and that’s been since the ACA was passed.
I had no clue about this. Very interesting! We are paying so much for insurance now that my husband and I are both independent. (I paid $0 in premiums at my prior employer.) And from last year to this year our premiums jumped about 30%. Yikes. At least we can deduct our premiums from taxes.
Chonse at My Debt Epiphany said “Last year, I had to have a surgery done which totaled around $13,600. Liberty HealthShare repriced my medical bills to about $3,500 and shared the entire expense.”
What exactly does repriced mean?
Liberty got the hospital to discount the bill to just $3,500, and then that’s all that Liberty had to pay. This is so that everyone saves money. Hospitals usually inflate bills.
Wow. Just one more caveat to being an RV living family that I never even thought about. I do naturally wonder what self-employed folks are doing for health insurance, and how much, but the whole RV thing adds another layer. I’m glad you found something reasonable to comply with the law and get health care needs met. The part about them not being required to cover you sounds so crazy, but it sounds like you really had no other options.
Yes, there are lots of things to think about when it comes to RVing!
I was so excited to see your post. I had to put two of our children on this plan as our family moved to an HMO that wouldn’t cover them as they are out of the state. There are 4 sharing companies, I believe. When the ACA was being written someone was smart enough to get language inserted that if the company existed prior to some year (1995? or maybe 1985?), members (new or existing) of those would be exempt from the penalty of not having traditional insurance.
This month will be the first time we have tried to use it, so maybe I will come back and leave a review of our experience. I liked Liberty Health over the others because after 3-years, pre-existing conditions are covered, where as the other companies don’t cover them. Also, Liberty operates more traditionally in that they collect all of the “premiums” and distribute as necessary. Many of the other companies had you write individual checks to the other members.
We did opt for the higher plan which either has a much higher lifetime max or no max, I can’t remember and it comes with a bill negotiation feature.
I did a ton of research on these companies and it was very difficult to find any bad experiences. The reason we didn’t move over as a family is the company I work for contributes part of the costs and wouldn’t switch over to them. I also have an HSA eligible plan. Liberty Healthshare does not qualify for an HSA.
Great to hear from a fellow member! Liberty’s highest amount is $1,000,000, which is the plan that me and my husband are on.
Wow I had no idea that you had to have a special form of insurance if you move frequently from one state to another. Thank you for the content, I also had no idea this even existed. I see the downside to using this service and will be researching further. I just signed up for my employer’s health insurance benefits and hopefully that’s enough for now.
Health is so important!
I’m an early retiree and have been on Obamacare for 2 years (retired at 53). I’ve seen it go up in cost and down in value and choice tremendously. I’ve been researching alternatives for a while now and Liberty is on top of my list. You being a full-time RV’er bring up another consideration – full-time traveling. I spoke with Kim at Liberty and he assures me they will cover me internationally as well as domestically. I may need to pay the expense first and then be reimbursed but that should not be a problem unless it is $$$.
Do you or any of your readers have any experience with Liberty and international travel or living?
I am so glad you wrote this post! I had never thought about what traveling full time could mean for my health insurance coverage. Do you know if life insurance policies are similar in regard to full time travelers?
Thanks again because this was ridiculously informative!
Amanda
I haven’t really looked too far into life insurance policies since we started traveling. That’s something I definitely need to do!
Thanks for sharing. Health insurance has turned into golden handcuffs for us. It’s the one obstacle keeping us from living our dream. I had no idea these ministry plans were so affordable. The skeptic is me did a quick search “Christian health ministries – do they pay claims?” which turned up this article from the New York Times on the first page: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/01/opinion/sunday/onward-christian-health-care.html It starts with a story of a breast cancer patient and how her claims were addressed. It’s just one story though and that’s anecdotal. It’s still encouraging!!
Hi Michelle,
Thanks for posting.
This blog post comes handy. My health insurance is up for renewal, and I had to change some condition because like you, I’m going to travel/live in three different countries in yearly basis which make me a digital nomad.
The result is my insurance has triple the premium, which don’t make me very happy.
I just wrote an article about my decision process if accept the new premium or stay uninsured while investing this money by myself.
In effect, creating my own insurance. The idea is to use this portfolio for future medical bills expenses when needed.
I’m still analyzing and processing “alternative” ideas.
I’m going to check out the “health care sharing ministry.” It sounds interesting.
Hopefully, there is an international one. I’m not American.
Hi Michelle,
Thanks so much for posting this. Has it continued to work out for you guys? Some reviews said that it took over a year for the bills to be settled.
I’m also a bit concerned that it’s such a small company. I read somewhere that it only has < 30,000 people signed up, which isn't much to share the risk and a lot of these companies have gone out of business lately. It also caps the amount covered per incident, and cancer/surgery/chemo, treatment for hepatitis, or a bad car accident can easily blow through this cap. The likelihood of being in this scenario is low, but as a doc I do see it all the time. They also state that if you file too many claims, they'll raise your rates. So again, if you get cancer…
I also wish that they accepted pre-existing conditions, because by pulling healthy people out of the ACA pool, they raise the prices for everyone else.
Argh! I wish we had better options, and thanks again for the review.
Yes, it’s worked out for us and they have covered a few small bills already. That being said, there weren’t any other options for us since we’re RVers and normal insurance or ACA won’t cover us.
The Liberty group I’m a part of has a cap of $1,000,000 per incident. I figure that’s enough. If I have a medical situation that costs more than a million dollars, I got bigger problems than bankruptcy. And back to what the author points out a few times–I had not choice. OK, so I do have a choice, but the cost of traditional insurance is approaching unobtainable, and thus “no choice” but to do something alternative.
You do raise a good point that if a significant part of the population joins healthshares, it leaves a higher concentration of folks needing more expensive care in the insurance pools. Those needs have to be met SOMEHOW, and most likely the government has to step in and pay…which means we pay with higher taxes.
What needs to happen is to reduce the costs in the first place. In the US, we spend 2300% more on health care in 2009 than we did in 1970. The data shows that this is primarily due to increased administration costs! That is, the insurance industry and government regulation has complicated the system so much, we are now spending billions just to process our health care paperwork and billing. I highlight this in an article I wrote this week: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/insurance-kills-healthcare-part-2-troy-wolf
I am getting mixed inputs on the # of members that are part of Liberty HealthSharing. When I call they say it has 70,000. But then other sites are claiming it has only20 or 30,000. Do you know how many members they have now?
I recently joined Liberty Direct–part of Liberty Healthshare. On Dec 22, 2016, I received an email from Liberty’s Executive Director, Dale Bellis, that said, “Just a few days ago, our membership surpassed 100,000 people!”
I wonder how is it possible that Liberty Health Share can convince any hospital or healthcare provider to reduce their costs upwards of 75% to 85% ? I read a few examples where a member would have a major healthcare event and Liberty would simply convince the hospital to re-price their bill. One example was for a cancer treatment in the amount of $380,000. Liberty somehow convinced the hospital to re-price it down to less than $80,000. I have some experience in this field and I know that most hospitals will not consider cost reductions under any circumstances. I am very surprised to read this and quite frankly, it now makes me wonder what happens if the hospital or healthcare provider says “no”. Does Liberty still go through with the reimbursement or simply pay what they think it should cost no matter if the real cost is much higher ???
They say they will pay the whole amount that is due, whether it can be reduced or not.
Great article. It’s great to have multiple options so you can make the best decision for your family. That being said, there are other options for those that want actual insurance outside of Obamacare. My family and I are on a plan that saved us over 70% from Obamacare/ACA and it’s a nationwide plan so I can get coverage whenever my family and I travel in the USA.
Do you mind sharing what your plan is?
I’m also curious as to what plan your family is on. Do you mind sharing? Thank you!!
Wow, that 39k deductible for traditional insurance that you were quoted on is bonkers! I can’t get over their greed.
Glad to hear you found a good alternative and hope it continues to work out well!
This article is better than mine, but I just published an article on LinkedIn about my healthcare journey that includes a health care sharing ministry. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/insurance-kills-healthcare-part-2-troy-wolf
Thanks for sharing your experience and spreading the word!
I just recently got a quote for my family (of four) after discussing my preexisting condition- leukemia. I was told while my condition was not going to be shared, my other health care concerns would be if they arose. My leukemia is in a “progression free survival” mode managed with Imbruvica at 20k / month. With private pay insurance Johnson & Johnson will provide the drug free at my income level but not with “single payer- (read public)”. After submitting the application, I was informed that I would not be covered for any care for any condition even if unrelated to my preexisting condition. The website informs the public that no coverage for the preexisting condition DURING the first year of coverage, 25,000 for the 2nd year and 50,000 for the third year.
I think they should change this to be consistent with actual practice of not sharing at all ANYONE with a preexisting condition.
My husband and I are both self employed. We always paid for our own health insurance for the two of us and our two children. Since The Affordable Care Act was put in place our premiums have been unsustainable and we were forced to go through the exchange to keep costs down, but those premiums became unsustainable as well. Insurance premiums should not equal a mortgage payment! In my search for an alternative I stumbled upon Liberty HealthShare and took a chance. I just signed on this January 2017. I am so relieved to read this article. We haven’t had any medical expenses yet, but I’m relieved to know they cover them! More than I can say for the regular health insurance companies who find every reason possible to deny a claim. Thanks for the info!
I’m about to take the leap too–best of luck to you; I hope you post your experience. I will as well.
Since I’m health, and fit, I don’t anticipate NEEDING more than my annual check ups, but of course you just never know.
Thanks for sharing this information. My hubby and I are exploring our health insurance options as we look to early retirement. We have a blog that we are building and hope to build it to a level where we can travel nearly full-time in our Airstream. I appreciate all the assistance and advice that I get from your blog!
RV living is so much fun! 🙂
Long but lots of first hand helpful and specific details…
I have been with Liberty for about 18 months. I have needed to use it more than most this year and can say it is the single best decision I have made. I choose it when I calculated my out of pocket cost for premiums and copays on ACA would be $45K if my daughter was in the ER (likely, she is allergic to nuts) and if we had one other serious episode. Considering I make $52K, that did not seem very “affordable.” So I researched extensively knowing I had to find another solution but I was skeptical at first. I liked Liberty better than Samaritan because they had better tracking on the money and an online portal and Samaritan requires a pastor from your church to sign off on every bill submitted which seemed excessive to me. I also like that Liberty’s statement of beliefs were more inclusive.
So onto my actual experience. In June last year, I was in a significant car accident with both my children. Liberty has been fantastic in paying all of my bills which have been substantial. They have limits like 20 PT visits per year or 12 chiropractic but they waive those limits if the situation warrants it, so I have had probably had over 100 of those visits and they pay. They have even paid for 40+ visits for acupuncture for pain. They paid for my broken teeth to be repaired since it was part of a traumatic injury. I dislocated my jaw in the accident and despite the fact that they say they don’t cover durable medical equipment, they paid for a $1250 retainer and classified it as a “cast” like for a broken arm. So I have found if I just ask for what I need they tend to try hard to find a way to work with me. I also had some other issues and I could go to an alternative medical doctor of my choosing that I previously had to pay out of pocket. Also, despite the fact my son move to Honolulu for a gap year, there has been no issue with paying. With $1000 “deductible” for a single parent family this has been a non issue financially. They have also been great working with my personal injury attorney.
To address a couple of issues I read above:
*The sharing ministries have been operating successfully for 20 years, they can’t say they will pay because they can’t be considered insurance but they do. If they stopped paying, everyone would stop paying monthly and then I feel like I would just be in the same position as when different providers dropped out of ACA and rates went up. Regular health coverage is a risk too and I believe they are more likely to deny charges.
*HSA – I agree it is a bummer you can’t add to an HSA, but it only saves you a few hundred dollars in tax. There is legislation proposed to change that but who knows when it will happen. I have just been using my old HSA money to cashflow my bills. If a doctor won’t bill directly to Liberty (about 50/50) then I ask for the self pay rate and use my HSA card. I submit the bill online to Liberty when I get home, about a 2 min process and I get paid back in about 3-4 weeks. Then I redeposit the money in my HSA and repeat. I will keep my HSA money restocked by the end of the year so I can use it next year, with only $1000 out of pocket it is easy to show at the end of the year that I have replaced all of the funds. Nice way to keep the max money available without upsetting my month budget.
*Preexisting conditions. My daughter’s anaphylaxis was not counted as a preexisting condition despite being a life long condition because she has gone 24 months without a reaction (her longest streak ever, then broken about 2 months after going on Liberty.) My physical therapist had 20 year high blood pressure but they accepted her if she did coaching for 2 months ($80/mo) just to see if there was anything thing she was missing then after 2 months they considered her fully covered even if something goes wrong related to blood pressure, so they do make exceptions in some cases, just ask. Her husband had a stoke and so they accepted him with the normal pre-existing conditions (no coverage year 1 for related issues but covering everything else, $25K max year 2, $50K max year 3, full coverage year 4.) They decided to put him on and keep his old insurance since it is only $100 more per month to add him to LIberty. After the first year, Liberty will allow you to turn in any costs not paid by your other insurance against your $25K…they decided with a $10K deductible on his normal insurance that they could recoup in year 2 and 3 it would be worth the extra $1200 for 3 years to wait out the preexisting condition then drop his old insurance.
*Discounting bills. All providers charge huge rates and all insurance companies pay less, most of the time 60%+ less. I had a $18K follow up visit in the ER plus ambulance. They paid the ER $720 + $300 MRI + $1000 ambulance. The ambulance company accepted the payment. The ER started sending me balance bills demanding payment. Liberty has an email you just send anything you get in the mail demanding payment and they either deny it or pay a bit more if needed. But I never heard another word, it was simple! Also, in the case of my alternative medicine doctor, I paid her regular cash rate $450/hr and Liberty reimbursed my in full. They typically pay less on charges billed to them and pay the full price if you pay at the time of the service. P.S. If you go to Labcorp for testing, tell them you refuse to sign the paper that says they will bill your credit card on file for any amount your insurance does not cover. Also, when they say they can’t bill Liberty (or say you have to sign the other paper) they are lying. Demand to bill Liberty, do not give a CC and do not sign the paper. I had about $60K in testing this year…Liberty paid about $20K, if I had signed the paper, they would have kept billing my card for the rest! Lastly, this discounted billing thing works even for me by myself…when my daughter needed her wisdom teeth out and I found out my ex had canceled her dental insurance. I just went to the oral surgeon and said “I don’t want to do the used car dealership thing. I am willing to pay cash up front but I know that no insurance company pays $3200 for these services. Can we settle on a reasonable and fair cash price?” Within 5 minutes he had talked to the billing lady and they dropped my bill by $1700…just for asking.
A few things to consider about Liberty and a few ways around them:
1. Liberty has very limited coverage for Medications, 45 days max but they have a discount program. I have found GoodRx App has better prices and most drugs are surprisingly inexpensive, just ask you doctor about generic or reasonable options or just ask if they have any samples. They actually charge you less if you pay cash then they bill your insurance. I had one medication for $800 for 20 days, but I looked on GoodRx and the price for cash was $300-$48. I drove an extra 10 miles and paid $48 (whole time standing there feeling like I was doing something wrong, even the pharm tech said “oh, these codes never work” and I said ” well, give it a try and if it doesn’t, there is a number on there we can call to work it out.” No problem, it worked. Even got the same price on my future refills.
2. Liberty does not cover durable medical equipment. Sounds bad but it is pretty small in the bigger picture. Every major city has used medical equipment for sale, so if you need a brace or wheelchair, etc. do not rent or buy full price, check out these used shops. I live at high altitude and need an oxygen concentrator at night. My old insurance used to pay $288 per month to Apria for a high altitude concentrator and I am sure they would be happy to charge me the same. I found a guy on Craigslist (I did check him and his company out extensively) who maintains and sells concentrators to people who have mountain ski homes. I got a used one for $450 that had just been refurbished and calibrated. I have been using it since I switched to Liberty with no problems.
3. Liberty just started requiring preapproval for testing. Just call in for an approval. They are using it as a cost saving measure but they are very reasonable in their approvals. They also cover alot of less standard test that an alternative medicine doctor might order that regular insurance would not so the small extra step is no big deal.
So all in all, I will be an empty nester in a year and Liberty will continue to cover both kids no matter the state they live and they will be able to use the on campus clinic if they want. Also, I will be covered not matter where I wonder. So honestly, I believe Liberty is even a better value than I thought based on my research. My experience and being forced to face a number of unexpected hurdles, I can find no area I feel Liberty has let me down.
I am so glad there is a way to ride out this nonsense in our healthcare system upheaval!
Hi there, Are you still happy with Liberty? Just found that my insurance policy is getting cancelled at the end of the year and thinking about signing up.
I have been considering Liberty Healthshare for awhile but I guess the fear of the unknown has kept me from signing up. I’m wondering if anyone has signed up with Liberty but kept their “traditional” medical insurance for a period of time until they were comfortable and confident there would not be any issues with Liberty.
Also, we live in a small town (< 20k) and I don't see any Liberty preferred providers in my area. What happens if you see a doctor not in the Liberty "network"?
Thanks to all for the great info.
I’m an early retiree and have been on Obamacare for 2 years (retired at 53). I’ve seen it go up in cost and down in value and choice tremendously. I’ve been researching alternatives for a while now and Liberty is on top of my list. You being a full-time RV’er bring up another consideration – full-time traveling. I spoke with Kim at Liberty and he assures me they will cover me internationally as well as domestically. I may need to pay the expense first and then be reimbursed but that should not be a problem unless it is $$$.
Do you or any of your readers have any experience with Liberty and international travel or living?
I have been with Liberty Healthshare for almost 3 years. I enjoy the low premiums however, I am actively looking elsewhere as trying to get doctors and health facilities to use the card has been a nightmare. We are constantly considered self pay and then I must send in receipts which almost always get rejected because they need more information. My son broke his leg. At first it looked liked it was going to be covered. They “repriced” it and shared it, only to get the balance due later from the hospital for 10,000.00. I am responsible for that amount because remember they don’t have to cover it if they don’t feel like it. I do not recommend this to anyone. I love the concept and it seems great, but paying off a 10,000.00 hospital bill is no fun.
Would you please share why it wasn’t covered? Isn’t there a legal department designed to protect against just this?
Hello Matt,
Not true! Liberty Healthshare will pay but like any other insurance company they need the proper paperwork (1500 universal form, medical notes, etc) to process the bill. I too as a new member 2/1/2017 could not get bills paid at first only to find out that NOT ONE Hospital or Doctor in Southern Oregon considered them an Insurance company so was not even trying to submit my bills to Liberty or provide them the medical notes, 1500 forms or additional information Liberty requested from them and needed like any other insurance company to process our claims! So, I order the 1500 forms and all medical notes for each visit have them mailed to me then upload all of it together to Liberty with the bill and have Liberty send me the reimbursement checks. Year to date everything 100% has been paid about $18,000 total no deductibles or co-pays as all of the visits have been well care including our expensive colonoscopies. I did have some arguments with the hospital’s billing department not providing me what I requested, so told them I would get a christian attorney that I felt because my insurance was christian I was be discriminated against – they straightened up and cooperated with all my requests. But again at first being skeptical I thought I was getting a run around by Liberty only to learn the Hospital’s and Doctor’s billing departments were giving me the run around by not sending me the proper additional information I was requesting on Liberty’s behalf. We pay $299 per month for my husband and I. So far we have paid Liberty $2,691 and they have reimbursed us about $18,000. Liberty said Oregon is the worst State for them to deal with so they have our account flagged to always send the reimbursement checks to me since I am the one submitting the claims and providing them the proper paperwork. I do spend some time uploading the claims, but it is so worth it! Under the ACA our monthly premiums would be $2,400 per month plus $20,000 for annually deductibles to get only 60% covered on bronze plan. We simply could not afford it!!! But we had to get health care now that we are 61…..
PS
Like other insurance companies, Liberty pays 125% of what medicare charges, so I can tell you your hospital bills were excessive and that is why Liberty did not pay all of it first go around. I had this same problem with one of the hospital bills that had a $4, 432 excessive charge, so called the billing dept asked for the self pay discount. They discounted all but $1,000 and then let Liberty know. (Excessive charges are explained in the sharing guideline membership booklet). Liberty explained to me that if you are not stuck with an excessively charged bill they resubmit it to a different dept for processing. I was reimbursed the $1,000 by liberty within 2 weeks.
Does anyone have any experience with Medishare? Thank you.